Education Placement Takeover - Ashira, Jack and Lucy

Happy New Year! We’re kicking off the year with the first of many special episodes featuring our Year 3 education placement students, Lucy Munro, Ashira Sears, and Jack Ledger share their unique experiences. They dive into what they loved, the challenges they faced, and offer valuable advice for students considering this placement in the future.

This episode shines a spotlight on a distinctive physiotherapy placement setting, offered by only a few universities.

As always, if you like what you hear, please rate and share the podcast on your preferred streaming platform. Your support and feedback makes a big difference.

Stay tuned for more.

Transcript

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Welcome guys to It's Not Just Physio. It's a bit of a different session here today. You are joined by some physio education students. My name is Ashira. I'm joined by Jack Ledger. Hello. Hello everyone. And Lucy. I don't know why I was going to call you Lily. Hello. And I'm sitting here next to a big bowl of Halloween sweet candy, which we went trick-or-treating for last night. And yeah, we've just finished our last day. So I just thought we'd come on here, have a bit of a chat about how we found education placement, sort of sharing our experiences. Hopefully that will be of some interest to you. And if not, hopefully we get sidetracked and start talking about something else. So, Jack, do you want to start us off by just telling us how you sort of found the placement? Yeah, I can do. Yeah, I found the placement. It was fantastic. Really, it was quite laid back setting compared to working in a hospital or a private clinic or wherever so no I think it was it was great to get to know the first year as well coming and doing the placement straight off the bat in September especially being it helped the Supra side of things as well getting to know who I was who I was with go on Jack tell us what is Supra I must know well Supra if you there is an episode I believe where we go and explain basically Supra is the the physio and sport rehab society here at the University of Nottingham so yeah it's kind of where we get everyone who is a physio or a sport rehabber is automatically signed up and yeah we just run lots of events socials and CPD events across the year so yeah it was good to as the president it was good to kind of get it was good to kind of yeah get through the first years and build that rapport and those relationships to begin with so yeah it was fantastic placement it built your confidence wise and yeah Yeah, it would help you with kind of presenting in front of a larger group, which you may not be able to get that experience from other placements. So, no, I've, you know, it's very cliche, but I feel like I've grown and, you know, I've developed these skills. So, yeah. What do you think, Lucy? Yeah, I agree. Like, especially confidence-wise, I've... come far like if I think about the first day can you know introduce myself to ten first years and then doing a demo in front of all of the second years So yeah, confidence-wise, it's been great, but I've loved it. And it's been nice to see the new course actually in action as well. And I think, especially the SGD sessions, they're just great, I think. Yeah. So again, there was a podcast, I think, on the introduction of SGD sessions. But for those of you who don't know, Nottingham University's undergoing well has undergone a change in the way that the physiotherapy course is run I'm just in a in sort of accordance and in guidelines with how the HCPC who's our regulatory body wants physiotherapy to look like um sort of in the near coming future so um physio has undergone a big change under the course and it's I think especially very crazy for us to see so I was a course rep in first and second year and coming with feedback of what my peers and what like you know colleagues were saying about the course and then sort of feeding that back to roger who was hearing all our complaints and trying to you know say okay we're going to do this and we're trying to put this in place it's super interesting to see the way that they've taken those on board they've sort of adapted the course to make it a lot more student guided so it's a lot more case study based it's a lot of problem solving it's trying to make physio sort of have that um that communication that um sort of what's the word that I'm looking for is that like clinical reasoning and building it from very very early I think that's something that we felt we missed within our course whereas then there's also the fact of we got we were very strict on anatomy in year one and we were very like anatomical based and pathophysiology and they have less of an emphasis on that so I think it's really interesting seeing the way that the course has changed so I think that I just wanted to make sure you guys knew what we were talking about I'm Personally, I really loved about the placement. And I know no one asked me, but I'm going to tell you anyway. But what I loved was the fact that normally, obviously, if you go to a placement and you sort of, it's just potluck who your educator is, what team you're put on, how you get on with them. But obviously, we're coming on placement and being with the team who we already worked quite closely with. And we already were seeing like on a day to day basis. And we've already built relationships with them over the years. over the past two years, they've sort of come to learn and find out what kind of students we are, people, mentors, whatever you want to call it. So I loved being able to, A, see like kind of just what goes on like behind the scenes. Like it's literally like a behind the scenes movie in how they create all those fun sessions for us. Like those virtual reality and the random sessions where we go and get to like work with sim patients and like doing all these basic life support. Like you just get to see how much go into the planning of just even like a half an hour or an hour session it's it's and from from start to finish it's it's yeah it's really intricate there's loads that goes into it so much honestly getting there you get you kind of gain that experience of setting up that qr code and even putting the putting stuff away the benches at the end and then honestly so if you guys are in that staff meeting trying to coordinate how many physios what 15 physios all shouting ideas at each other and things that they want to make happen and obviously as an educator like you want to try and make the best opportunities the best lesson plans the best things that you can do but we have very real time money resource constraints um like as every department in the university has so trying to implement those in the most efficient and realistic way possible also so just seeing what goes through that like the the sort of like behind the scenes and then also just getting to get more sort of like build more relationships with the people that we're already close with and I just think it it just enriched the experience so much and I think going back now to even uni on Monday and going back to those lessons where we haven't been involved in planning them is going to be so crazy just to like because we will I think I just have now such a greater appreciation obviously before I was like thanks so much for you guys you know staying and doing this but you appreciate it on another level now oh it's it's yeah it's crazy see what goes into it and yeah we're definitely more appreciative of the work they do behind the scenes absolutely me and Emma were saying we're going to be the first ones putting our hands up in the lecture to answer a question avoid those awkward silence getting students to engage when you're like you and the student you're just staring at each other we're like we can stand here in silence all day are you going to try and say something but you know it's difficult it's difficult especially within those big groups and I think that's something why building that confidence, even just for the actual students taking part in the lessons and having to, quite a lot of the things we're doing to test their knowledge is they're re-presenting to each other or teaching or demoing or presenting. So even that for the students, obviously we're gaining our confidence to have to learn to teach and engage in front of a big group or hold a lecture theatre's attention. But for them as well, I think they're getting some really valid, good experience of building their confidence within the scope that they're going to be working in. So we haven't mentioned the SGDs before. Do you want to tell them a little bit about those? Lucy, do you want to explain kind of how those work? How they work? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so we've, for the past five weeks, we've been kind of facilitating these sessions of about 10-ish? Yeah, it's about 10. About 10 first years. Tell us what SGD stands for again. Student Guided Discovery. sessions and for three weeks at a time so for three weeks they have a case study and they do Like kind of all of their learning within this one case study. Yeah so the first one was Waleed and he had no specific lower back pain. Obviously they didn't know that at the start and it was take it was So throughout the session, they watch a video called a spark that gets released and gives you some information about Waleed, about the case. And the students then have to identify, they have to discuss it and then identify these learning gaps. So I think for the first one for Waleed, it was things like discovering the biopsychosocial model was it anatomy yeah how the spine moves so kind of just like already on their first week of course thinking about kind of that holistic approach to therapy and I was I was amazed at the things that they came up with and it's just like a really comfortable like comfortable comfortable, small environment, and it's very safe. I think I found that everyone was keen and comfortable to contribute, which is very different to what I experienced in first year, especially coming from A levels. And then the next week they just come and present exactly what they found and teach each other, and the idea is that they don't do PowerPoints. they come up with a creative way of teaching everyone else. So we've had board games, lots of quizzes, things to do with food. And then they move on to the next Spark, but it's great. It's really, really good. It's a good way of kind of teaching and learning, because obviously with the new course, these SGD sessions in and the new course kind of follows more constructivist like this constructivist pedagogy where kind of there's a facilitator in these sessions in these small seminar SGD sessions but then the students kind of have to are kind of prompted and guided and aren't told the answers and they have to do kind of the research themselves and go about and find the answers because the facilitator kind of sets out these learning gaps or tells their students how many learning gaps there is this week and they have to kind of fill those themselves and then go about next week and as Lucy was saying presenting fun ways board games crosswords word searches so kind of it's so different and obviously as obviously a student on placement going into it and having to facilitate those sessions it was hard at the beginning would you agree yeah it was hard enough to kind of fill those silences yes definitely and obviously when maybe when students aren't exactly along the right lines yet until they maybe present next week it's hard to then go oh well actually it's this this and these are the correct answers. But actually, as kind of where placement progressed, it got kind of, as we learned how to do the role, we got more comfortable and started to think about and prepare more prompts to encourage better peer-to-peer discussion within the groups. So I think kind of development as a facilitator was one of the big things, and obviously being introduced and being thrown into this kind of constructivist kind of, the students kind of teach themselves That sort of pedagogy was interesting and it helped me develop the cross-placement. It's something I've never really considered before. So it was definitely an interesting way and I enjoyed it. And I think myself, if I was put through the course, going into first year, I think... I would have enjoyed that sort of way of learning and I would have enjoyed being on that setting. And obviously, as Lucy said, it builds your critical thinking, but it builds that clinical reasoning. These case studies make you think about the patient holistically and as a whole. So it really develops you as a clinician rather than just, obviously, there's the argument that we're not really anatomists. We don't have to know absolutely everything in the world. We're physiotherapists. We're supposed to be clinicians at the end of the day. But I think the course kind of tries to find that balance between hammering anatomy kind of becoming a good clinician and with the facilitators the idea is that anyone could facilitate one of those sessions so you don't you know you don't have to be an experienced physiotherapist to guide the students learning yeah so if you kind of think about it like that it's you know you wouldn't be able if you weren't like experienced in whatever whatever the case is you aren't able to give kind of that like Like those answers, that advice. And I think like doing, when we were doing that, that was important to remember. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, seeing they also, the students kind of appoint someone as chair that like kind of runs the session. So the facilitator actually steps back and, you know, bringing in kind that leadership role from week one. And I don't know about you guys, but by the end of, by my last SGD, you know, I was pretty much just, they were just getting on with it. Yeah, they were just running the session, absolutely. Running the session, you know, they'd picked up kind of the idea of okay, we're looking for learning gaps. And then they kind of just got on with it. Also, they familiarise themselves with their own responsibilities sort of within that. So as Lucy said, we allocate them or they allocate themselves to have a chair who essentially is the leader of the session. It's their responsibility to make sure in terms of presenting everyone's presentations, like all the logistical things, like they're in on time, everyone's brought their things everyone's in everyone's on time and then also they are responsible for letting the researcher know what they need to research and how they might word questions and thinking about what sources they're using and whether that's reliable and valid and then you also have your scribe as well who generally just notes down the ideas that the group is coming up with so yeah I think it was definitely as Jack said it was sort of I definitely am someone who likes to just sort of jump into the deep end so as soon as they settle you know you have the chance to you know facilitate these sessions the first session you go you know it can just be you observing you don't need to jump into anything I immediately was like no I want to be involved but it was a lot more what I was surprised about was how much more difficult it was than I was anticipating because for me like having knowledge was something I thought that coming onto this placement it was first of all it was a lot more than what I thought it was going to be that's the first thing but I thought it was going to be a lot of just standard sort of teaching and I obviously had a preconceived idea of what teaching is in my mind and that's what I thought it was going to be and therefore I thought when I originally said that I was interested in doing this placement I was thinking more from the lines of okay you know maybe I'll be going into third year you know I want to consolidate my own knowledge and I feel like a very good way of doing that especially when I was learning my A levels that's my best way to learn is by teaching something because it just shows that i truly understand what i'm even saying to in order to explain it so um i really thought you know yeah i'm just going to come here i'm going to consolidate i'm going to revise like i'm going to know all this stuff and yeah it really was not like that at all and i remember like them saying to me listen to shara we know you like to go and be detailed and know you know the exact basal ganglia that it comes from but yeah we'd rather you don't go home and revise content rather than let's say look at those pedagogies and look at different learning theories and look at facilitation methods and how you can use let's say verbal non-verbal cues but to prompt someone to open up or to facilitate the conversation and so it was so different having to like step back and be like whoa I'm not actually doing what I need to be doing right now let me think about instead of just giving them the answers and like putting them onto the right tracks especially when they look at you and they're looking at you like do you know the answer you don't want to look like you don't know the answer because they're looking to us as the third years who have more experience and knowledge and all of that to them obviously we didn't know absolutely everything no of course we didn't but it was also when you do know the answer and they're looking at you like oh but is it is it the red flower is it and you're like i can't tell you yeah exactly go ask your researcher and find it out and so you mentioned about obviously it's kind of it's great for this place when it's fantastic for it you know from a revision point of view because you're going back and teaching what you've learned last year. Consolidate. Yeah, you can consolidate. When you teach something, I don't know if you guys agree, but you lock it in in your brain. It means that you properly understand it to be able to teach things. So absolutely. And going on from that, what have you guys, what benefits has this placement brought you? What have you got from this placement? What do you think? Well, like I said already, confidence definitely. Absolutely. I think my growth, my confidence is very different now to what it was in the first week. I also think that's... Sorry. I just think that's... I think it's very valid because I remember we were having this conversation off pod yesterday. I feel really cool now that I can say that. But I think it's so... It's such like a great insight and it's so valid. I keep using the word valid, but it's because I can't think of the word that I want. For students to see the different students, even that we are, and like the fact that we're a group of six education students who are all pretty conscientious, you know, hardworking students. But we all have a very different teaching methods. We're all very different people. We all have very different sort of styles when it comes to things. We have different skills. skills, different expertise different experiences different like literally completely different people and so you'll see people like for me I don't mind talking in front of a group I don't struggle talking in front of a group or to people but I struggle more in terms of like planning and the organisational stuff like that's more where I fall short but then you see like the differences in just even And so then, oh, sorry. So then even when we're talking to students about our experiences and about, let's say, when we did our prep for placement, a lot of our second years of starting placement, is it in a week or two? Yeah. Yeah, and so we were basically just talking to them about our experiences and, you know, expectations before and on placement and after. And, you know, having the rich insight from each of us to say, okay, well, for me, it was most important to, let's say, build my confidence within this or having information to be able to prep before so that it can build my confidence. And for some people saying, oh, well, you know, this is what I really found in placement. I just think it's so amazing for the students to be able to see the fact that we're all such different physios and we have different skills because it shows you that it's not just one physio. Everyone is the same. We all have the same picture in our mind now. Physios are just people. Absolutely. We're people too, guys. So we just like, you know, it's just... Yeah, Jack's making faces at me, so I'm going to stop speaking now. Jack, what was your highlight? Oh, that's a fantastic question. Oh, the highlight. Oh, top of my head, the first thing I can think of is just getting... The last day, I think Neil will appreciate me mentioning him, but Max in my SGD, lovely lad, he bought me... giant chocolate buttons and a packet of Doritos chilli heatwave crisps because I said they were my favourite on the first day so that's going to be it's quite rewarding I've led those sessions for four or five weeks so it was a nice little highlight there but yeah it's just the SGD as a whole I'd say I really enjoyed running them and running with your group exactly it was just so relaxed making pals with and obviously keeping it professional as well but for But yeah, it was great. Those SGD sessions, they were fantastic. On that note too, I'm sure she won't mind me mentioning her, but yesterday with the second years, we were doing like a lumbar spine case and Shireen was in my group and she just gave me like a big smile and a thumbs up being like, you've got this. And it was just really, I don't know, yeah, it was just really lovely. And then, you know, a noticed that you know when when the session was kind of rounding up and was it Ed was saying oh like thanks to our education students and she was like clapping so much and a little whoop it was really cute it's nice isn't it it is lovely so lovely yeah well guys no one in my SGD group got me something I brought them all in sweets and so there you go yeah well I mean If you're in my SGD group, then you know. I'll have some words, won't you? Yeah, no, definitely. Especially since it's my birthday on Monday, guys. So if you do want to, you know. I love Buenos. Yeah. Sorry. I hope. Like I did say in my last SGD, just always come to me if you ever need anything, want any advice, want to go through anything. And I really hope that they do. I mean, there might even be some opportunities for us as third year students to then obviously, I know we've finished placement, but there might even be an opportunity for us to come back and run a couple more of those sessions throughout the rest of this year. Yeah, so I wanted to talk to, well, whoever really would be the best person to talk to, someone on the course about just sort of maybe us leading obviously voluntarily because you know we've got our own stuff this and things going on but just to sort of run drop-in sessions if sort of either the first years or the second years wanted it just I want definitely if any of you guys are listening now I do just want you guys to feel as Lucy said obviously only if we offered but do you feel like you can come and talk to us about whatever like we understand that you have your personal tutor systems in place and you have your peer mentors but you know sometimes you don't want to be told who you can go and talk to you know you want to talk to who you feel comfortable with and who you feel is you know the proper and correct person to do in that situation so if you do feel like it's beneficial to come talk to us if it's about anything if it's about you know uni advice or content or it's life please do we're all students aren't we we're all here we're all here like we're all open it's not easy to speak to someone who's obviously of a similar age than doing to an adult member of staff and obviously if it comes to it we need to obviously signpost to the correct people but absolutely we're all here for that open chat absolutely yeah I loved I just loved honestly getting to know the first and second year physios like I think honestly they were all pretty cool people and I just thought it was really just interesting to see those people you know who just get stuck in who just really just put their all into it and just go for it and it's such a brave thing because coming to uni in itself is scary enough as it is it's so scary so then to be put in a quite intense and difficult and challenging course to be talking about things you've never even heard of a week ago and talking about red flags and all of these things that you've never even sort of considered before it's it is definitely it's brave and we commend you for doing it and I mean we're all working together even though we're our own team I think that's also something I sort of saw was that we're all one big cohort you know we're all here supporting each other that's why I also really like this session so we led one session we have our normal Monday David Ross sessions with the first years and in our was it one of our last session last Monday sessions with them the second years joined our session and we had the first hour where we were teaching the first years some basic skills of I think it was elbow, wrist and hand and then in the elbow, wrist and hand and then on the second hour the second years came in and they did a bit of global leadership so they were teaching the first years about values within leadership like compassion and empathy and those sort of interpersonal skills which are literally the underpinning factors of our entire practice. And they came in and they delivered this really great session to them as well. And just seeing how sort of our three years interacted together and just seeing how all of us together, yes, we're all in different years, but all of us together are going to inform being the future of physiotherapists. So I just think that's so exciting to see that. And I just wanted to mention as well, this placement, obviously, it's so unique. Not many others, if any, in the country other universities offer this or anything like this. So I think having that on your CV now and being able to talk about it in job interviews in the future, it sets you apart from that next person. Do you know what I mean? It's something to talk about. You were involved with the teaching staff, the lead sessions. It covers all those points about leading, communicating, how to communicate, being in conference, speaking in front of a group, organising. Yeah, it obviously we had to organise plenty of sessions but you know we got it wrong a couple of times as well and then learn to get it right the next time which is fantastic so I think because it's so different it's yeah it's something definitely to that you want to get involved with yeah and I definitely say as well like what I think there was something that I didn't know would be a part of the placement experience because I just thought again it was mainly that teaching standard what I thought in my mind was teaching and we just sort of go with the first and second years and that's sort of it but we also had like pardon me such an amazing opportunity of working within like on a project as well so we were split between our three students and we've got three students coming in after the rest of our education placement so hopefully they can we can feed on to them and they can take over for us about our placement yeah but we got the opportunity to work on a project so I was working with Swim England which is the NGB for swimming in England if you can guess and you know just doing sort of a project work and having to coordinate and delegate tasks within your project while simultaneously planning and running sessions and researching and also trying to do this stuff and maintain a social life at the same time it was tough but it was tough but so rewarding and it gave us such like more of an experience than just having that teaching cycle because we also got that project management and being involved in something which was like I thought my project what I was actually doing was really interesting and I'm so glad that I got to help towards the cause so I just think it was really cool and I think also that's not really known about the placement that that's like we get a multitude of different experiences and even you know sort of we could get as stuck in as we like when we went up to the simulated patients they showed us the way that they sort of like program different breath sounds so that when it comes to those basic skills training you know people can oscillate and they can actually even you know I found out they can put catheters in they can suction they can literally do everything they can put catheters in yeah they told me they can put catheters in I think I know that's crazy so and then even then she said oh well if you want us to take you to our immersive room and like do and it was just like So I just think, you know, you get so many different opportunities and because you're in a place where there's so many different expertise and everyone knows each other and everyone's a team, you can pick off, oh, you mentioned something about this, that's super interesting, let me know. Yeah, absolutely. And I think just another key highlight was there was a Monday session where we were given free kind of reign to plan everything from the QR code to putting all the equipment away at the end and we had a session in the morning and then in the afternoon and then it felt recall correctly the morning session didn't really go as planned it was more than good enough however it was a session that we didn't really communicate well as a team based on timings and changeovers needed to be more prepared definitely absolutely and it was like okay we've delivered that session now it's done now and so we came back at lunchtime and as you've said reflected and changed things and made sure we communicated properly and made sure that we got it right for the afternoon session and it was the timings yeah it was the timings in the afternoon and obviously we went and delivered that session in the afternoon and it went so much more it went seamlessly it went much better than that morning session so yeah I think that just shows kind of us getting it right when we had it wrong before and obviously reflecting and improving and from feedback and yeah when I know how to I think that was good that was quite it gave us a good feeling it was a good feeling I've got it right the second time I've got the idea of how to actually properly prepare for it sometimes it can be a bit humbling but I think honestly I think it's important in life to be humbled sometimes because I just think like you know James will agree James tells us how many times and when we're in sessions you know you can plan it to be a sort like you know to have a certain outcome or you can plan it to be a certain way but realistically you know sometimes things can just happen and the students can take it in a complete different way that's not the case of what happened with us but you know just saying that things can go unexpected and you do need to learn that adaptability and how to reflect on the spot and quickly implement changes to try and improve it for the next time so I think it was good that we actually experienced that first hand we got to feel the sort of uncomfortable feeling of being in a session where like the timings were a bit like up up have your group moved on no our group like going through that experiencing that bit of an uncomfortable feeling yes it was uncomfortable and it didn't feel nice but then once we did get to reflect and then run the session the next time and it saw how it ran and improved again it did give you that it was like oh get in we got it right this time we got it happy days hat on the back before we finish do you want to quick like one couple of words key take home yes for each of us go on you start us off Lucy yeah I've already thought of mine. Go on then, go on then. Mine would be positive reflection. Yeah, yeah. What about you, Shira? That's your two words, it's positive reflection. Yeah. What's wrong with that? I don't know. No, no, no. What you've learned, what you're taking on to the rest of your placements, the rest of your practice. Jack is going to, he's dying, he's looking, he's dying to tell his first. Oh no, top of my head, I think If you were to come on this placement, I think confidence building. That's what I would say. You'll be put in uncomfortable situations, which may seem a little bit daunting, but it will improve your confidence and it will force you to kind of be outspoken and speak in front of groups with all eyes on you. So I think that was the biggest thing I took from it, a bit of building confidence. So for me, I'd say... Because for me, that's... sort of what Jax just said I'd say is probably the reason why I did do the placement that was what I sort of already felt comfortable in so I think what I took the most from it was like those organisational planning management time sort of skills being really on top of that and especially I think in an environment where I wasn't as scared normally on placement I'm a little bit scared to do something wrong because you don't want to do anything wrong you're on placement but having the comfort that okay they know me they know that let's say for example the bus was actually just late I didn't I wasn't just sleeping at home like I promised put you you know a little bit more at comfort so I think probably just having those organisational planning skills and I think take home is I had such a good point and I literally just got it the take home was that this placement is will just give you an awareness that's what it will give you an awareness and an understanding of the bigger sort of picture behind the scenes and even if you're not looking to go into academia per se I still think it's such a rich insightful placement to have for just like many different reasons that we've tried to cover today so that yes that was us really yes thank you very much for our little segment thank you so much for having us and listening to us um or not listening to us um and we're gonna pass on to our other education students who i think might tell you a little bit more about maybe the project aspect or some more things that they sort of want to bring to light and bring to the table yeah yeah i've been a shira yeah oh i've been jack yeah I've been Lucy. Thank you, Lucy. Thank you very much, guys. Bye-bye. Thank you, guys.

UNKNOWN: 37:08

Bye.