Paul Gill

In this episode, we sit down with Paul Gill, our new Head of School, to explore his inspiring journey from nursing practice to research and academic leadership. Paul shares key moments from his career, the lessons he’s learned along the way, and offers thoughtful reflections on navigating challenges in both life and in study.

Whether you're a student facing your own academic journey or someone interested in the wider world of healthcare and education, Paul’s insights and advice are grounded, motivating, and full of relevance.Tune in for a conversation that blends career reflection with practical wisdom for the road ahead

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to It's Not Just Physio with me, James Coghlan. I'm delighted today to have our head of school with us, the School of Health Sciences at Nottingham University, Mr. Paul Gill. Hello, Paul. Welcome. Hi. Great to see you both. Thanks for inviting me along. It's great to have you. And this episode is going to be great to get to know a bit more about Paul and what he does here at the school and also a bit of his background as well. He's got a really interesting story to tell as well. So Paul, why don't you just kick us off and tell us a little bit about yourself and we'll take it from there.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Yeah, thanks, James. So I think probably as you may already know, I'm a professor of nursing. I've been in the school, I think, four months. months now. I joined you via Northumbria University. I worked also at Cardiff University prior to then. And I'm a nurse by background, so adult nurse. I predominantly worked in critical care. And then I did a PhD, started my PhD, I think it was about 2001, something like that. And then I got my first academic post. And probably about, I'm trying to think now, about three years into my PhD. So I did a part-time PhD. I worked part clinical at the time as well. And then I decided to sort of dip my toes into the world of research. So I became a researcher in dental public health and things just kind of developed from there really. So yeah, I'm not sure I kind of had a plan in terms of getting to this point. Things just kind of happened for gratuitously I suppose to some extent anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Fantastic well lots to lots to unpack there and I guess I'll let's go back a little bit you're a nurse by background can you tell us what inspired you to go down that route first of all?

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yeah and again going back to that you know not having sort of a clear plan, I suppose. I remember I was doing my A-levels. My original plan around that time when I was in school, I was thinking of pharmacy at the time. And then I think it was my mother who suggested nursing to me. So it was never like, you know, a kind of clear plan as it were. And I just thought, yeah, no, actually, I would think I'd really like to do that. And for for the family to go to university. It was a really big deal for my parents in particular. My dad was a lorry driver, my mother was a dinner lady, working class kid from the Rhondda in South Wales. So it was a pretty big deal going to university. And then I worked for a little while in acute medicine when I first qualified. I was probably there, I guess, about a year, something and then I went to work in critical care and I spent most of my clinical career working in critical care and I think there probably just came a point I don't really remember when it was where I just you know, fancied a bit of a change in direction, which is kind of what led me to the PhD and research.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Wow. I mean, I love that trajectory from, I mean, as you say, going to university, as you say, at the time, quite a big deal. So, you know, you sound like your mum and dad supportive of that decision. I mean, and also, what was it like your network, like around with your friends and around that? Was that a typical route that people would do? Were you kind of like breaking them up? a little bit going off to university?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

I don't think I kind of broke the mould as such, because a lot of my friends did also go to university. became accountants one neither no yeah one does kind of work as an accountant but neither work really as accountants now um and one works as a pharmacist so quite a few of my friends went to university one of my other friends lee um he is an engineer. He did his degree, then a PhD. But I think I know it was kind of a big deal for my parents. And until fairly recently, I was still the only one in the immediate family who'd kind of been to university. And it was graduation last week, my first graduation ceremony since I've been here. It's always the kind of highlight in the academic calendar. And I think it just serves as a reminder that this is kind of why we do the job. This is what it's all about. And you see what a big deal it is, not just for the staff, but but especially for students and their families. And I do remember my graduation, and I think the thing that stands out the most was how proud my parents were. I can still remember that now.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Yeah, I mean, as you say, it's a lovely occasion, isn't it? And it sort of gives that, yeah, I agree with you. We saw our students last week and there's all sort of measures of pride isn't there and just, you know, it's a real achievement to get through and get a degree. It's hard work, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 5:51

It is. I mean, it's a big commitment. It's always been a big commitment. I think it's even bigger now because of the, you know, the financial component that comes with going to university. But I guess it also kind of serves as a reminder, I suppose, of the strengths of education, of what education can offer people. And I think that's largely why a lot of us sort of do the job of the difference it can make to people's lives. I think something I probably talked about, and I do remember this because I've talked about it a little while, but I do remember, you know, being asked when I went for my interview to be a nurse, you know, why do you, you know, why do you want to be a nurse? And I think it sounds quite twee now, but I talked about, you know, making a difference. And I think probably that's the one thing that motivates a lot of us, gets us out of bed in the morning. It's still the thing, the key thing now that sort of drives me of, you know, making a difference. I hope this doesn't sound sort of mad management spiel or anything, because it's really not. But when you think about all of the students, as an example, you kind of come into contact with, and they're then going out into clinical practice and so on and making a difference as well. And that's kind of a big motivation, I think. But it does, I kind of always find, serve as a reminder of what a proud day it is everyone what a massive achievement it is and you know the opportunities that presents people longer term as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Yeah absolutely taking yourself back to when you went to university yourself do you remember how that felt for you coming into that environment for the first time you know obviously thinking about that journey at the end getting your degree but do you remember how that felt to you when you went for the first time and what it was like? Yeah I

SPEAKER_01 7:59

do Yeah, I think it was sort of quite onerous really of, you know, oh, Have I bitten off more than I can chew here? Am I out of my depth? You know, you're sort of looking around. There's probably quite a lot of really bright people in this room and that feeling a bit of a fraud, I suppose, to some extent. So I do, you know, I do remember that kind of feeling. I think that's probably followed me around, you know, quite a bit at various points, you know, even now. But I do also kind of remember kind of remember as well, thinking, yeah, you know, here I am. I've kind of, you know, I remember having a conversation one day with one of the lecturers who was kind of like, yeah, you know, don't doubt your place at the table, really. You're kind of here on merit, you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah, absolutely. And some people find that that sort of, well, the style of learning is it can be quite difficult Yeah. Yeah. I think it, I

SPEAKER_01 9:21

mean, it was definitely a bit of a transition, a different way of learning. I think that sort of critical thinking, I suppose, was something that you don't quite get in the same way in school, certainly from my perspective. But yeah, well, it was a bit of a transition. and, you know, to kind of phrase a bit of a journey as well that, you know, I'm sure the way I wrote my first assignment, the way I wrote my dissertation was, you know, very different. And likewise, now I'm sure if I look back, my PhD thesis, that's, you know, a continual series of evolution, really. You know, my writing style has kind of evolved in many ways. But yeah, I guess it's something you'd just kind of get used to and it's probably easy now in retrospect to kind of forget you know what it was like of being a first year undergrad as an example and I guess it's just a bit of a marathon as opposed to a sprint I think you've just got to you know give yourself some time to settle in and not think you kind of know all the answers because you never do I still I still find most days are a school day, even now.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Nicely said. And I find that really, really interesting. You said at the beginning, a bit of doubt whether you should be here, whether that should be the case. But then obviously you go forward and you've got a PhD, which is amazing. Did you find during your, what was it that led you down that sort of research route? Do you think it was that time studying for nursing did you see any inspiration there or did that come later down the line?

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Yeah it definitely was a kind of start of a process really and I don't think certainly when I was studying for my degree I never had a PhD in mind or anything I guess that was a bit of a process to some extent I did the one thing I did do and I don't think I've mentioned this yet was probably certainly before my PhD, I started to think about making a kind of transition, the next step. So I did a master's degree in social anthropology first. I studied that full time. So I went to University of Oxford for that. And I think that probably was the springboard to some extent for the PhD because I guess I developed what you would call a research idea and certainly from the the time working in intensive care and an interest in organ donation, organ transplantation. And I guess I just had some inspiration from the social anthropology stuff. And that definitely served as a kind of springboard to the PhD then. It was definitely the kind of the start of the idea. It took a little while to kind of formulate into a question and so on. but that was the start of the process, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Yeah, absolutely. And then did you say you did your PhD whilst working at the same time? Yeah. How did you find that process of being able to split work as well as extra study? Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 13:02

that was tough. So I did, originally I kind of did a mix of bank and agency work and I probably did that for, so I did my PhD part-time obviously and I probably did that for about four years and it was difficult because I had some funding from Cardiff University but mainly it was sort of self-funded from bank and agency and there kind of came a point where I don't think that was sustainable in the longer term which was why I decided in part maybe I need to get a kind of a job and have a bit of security and a bit of sense of possibly onward trajectory but it It was a good way of sort of combining both of them. I think as well, the thing that I really would want to emphasise, notably around doing the PhD and getting my first research job, was that I developed a lot of transferable skills that I don't think I'd given proper credit to in terms of things like time management, interpersonal skills, speaking to people as a prime example so my first research job was in dental public health and I was conducting research with school children and I remember at the time I think I was probably the only health professional who'd kind of been shortlisted the other candidates as I understand were social scientists and I think they kind of felt because of my notably my intensive care experience that I'd probably you know and speaking to families and so on that I'd probably be able to interact with children in a way that perhaps the other candidates wouldn't and that was the first kind of point I suppose that I properly realised that as a health professional you develop a lot of interpersonal skills and life experience that perhaps other types of degrees don't offer you and I think that's been one of the common threads that have run through my career to date. I

SPEAKER_00 15:19

think it's really interesting you mentioned about that sort of in a way that sort of the platform of that clinical experience and then what you were able to do as a springboard from that and I think they say you talk about those those skills you learn clinically and with people are there any in particular you could look back on and when you really developed by being a clinician to set you up for later life is anything that really stands out for you?

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Yeah I guess the the the one thing that kind of really does kind of spring to mind i suppose it is especially working in intensive care that when you're in a like a high-pressured clinical environment your decision-making process when you're under pressure and that not panicking i suppose is one of the key things the other is definitely the interpersonal so dealing with people that sense check. It's a kind of when you have conversations with people, things I suppose you often take for granted because it's your bread and butter, but just managing a conversation. So certainly the start of my academic career, I guess, was predominantly qualitative and that definitely served me well in terms of managing an interview with a participant of being comfortable with pauses in conversation and not jumping in to kind of fill a space. The nature and purpose of the discussion is obviously different because you're often quite time limited, but that also kind of serves you well as well in terms of reading cues from people as well, knowing when to give people time because they're thinking. But yeah, they're not panicking. So as an example, one thing I really do remember, it still stands out in my mind now, when I first went into intensive care to work. I was working in what was then the District General Hospital. And children at that point were typically, outside of specialist centres, were typically cared for in adult intensive care units. And I remember one day in particular, a consultant came in and said, there was a young little girl on the paediatric unit who was septic, and he said, Set the trolley up come over with me We'll we'll stabilize it here, but we'll bring it back to intensive care to kind of ventilate So set everything up went across with him Went to the unit and things that unraveled very very quickly from the time that he'd come back and it was just pandemonium there was people running around I remember a nurse bringing a woman out of the side room where this little girl was and I thought it was the girl's mother just because of how she was and it was and even now I could never kind of she just made noise that I could I could never kind of replicate it was kind of like a scream or a howl but it was just yeah always kind of stuck with me and I remember the nurse kind of like taking her away we went in and it was just like chaos in there people running around so consultant said to me We're intubator, we'll ventilator here, stabilizer, and then we'll take her back to intensive care. So he got an IV line in. I remember the pediatric registrar was trying to get an IV line in and couldn't. So he got an IV line in and went to the top of the bed, said to me, keep an eye on the monitor for me and do cricoid. So for those who don't know, cricoid is where you... essentially just it applies some pressure to the kind of throat area so you make the vocal cords more visible for the for the anaesthetist so um sorry if this is long-winded by the way but i guess it's just you know something that kind of has sprung to mind of don't panic um and i'd remember doing cricoid uh and this little girl's oxygen saturations were dropping so you couldn't get the et And he'd stopped a couple of times, bagged it, get her oxygen saturations back up, and then was like, okay, let's go again. And he was sort of at the top of the bed. I was watching the monitor. He was like, a little bit more pressure, a bit more pressure, a little bit more. And he was like, okay, let's go again. this little girl's oxygen saturations started dipping and then they just started crashing. And I remember saying to him, I mean, I can't remember the exact sequence, but they're like, the 75% now, as in, do you want to stop and just give it a little bit of oxygen? He's like, I'm almost there. And then I just remember them, they're like 50%. And then they just dropped. And I just remember the monitor going mad. And the thing that I always remember was like looking around and the paediatric registrar started crying. And it was just like chaos. And I remember saying, I think they've gone down to something like 30 percent and it's like the 30 percent i was like i'm almost there i'm almost there and then he was like i'm in um secure the tube for me and then bang the oxygen saturations came back up and i remember like we stabilized her took her to intensive care and i remember walking back to intensive care and the thing i remember most because i can remember my hands shaking and this pediatrician crying um I was like, how did you keep that together? And he said to me, what do you think would have happened if I didn't? And he said, yeah, you know, when you're at the head of the bed, you've got to keep it cool. And that's always kind of stuck with me, really, of, you know, real life situations and the importance of Even if you are like a duck under the surface, just trying to keep... that environment calm, you know. So that's always stuck with me as well. And I think it's kind of always served me well in terms of, you know, there are lots of situations where they're difficult and trying, but, you know, keep calm and carry on, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Well, I mean, thank you for sharing that with us. What an experience. I mean, and I guess from that, would you say that, you know, when you really feel the pressure is right there, so when they sort of really, really low, it's still turned around. So I guess it's sort of holding that, trying to hold that call right to the last moment, isn't it? Or making perhaps a split decision. But going back into that, did it surprise yourself how you were in that situation? Because you can't really prepare for that, really, can you? So what did you take from yourself personally?

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Yeah, you can't. I'd never been in that position before, especially with children because of how things were in certainly the early 90s I'd never been in that position before so it's not something you can really prepare yourself for and I do remember my hands shaking and I do remember the chaos as well but trying to kind of keep a handle on things because in some ways we'd gone there to try to stabilise this child and I remember I'd been to a couple of I guess sort of retrievals on a ward adults and children with the anaesthetists have been in that situation but never been in that particular situation and it did I think you know I remember going back to the unit and just there being a bit of a crash afterwards of like you know just wanted to sit down and kind of just declutter and have a bit of a debrief because I remember coming back and the sister saying to me are you okay it was like geez yeah it was pretty you know it was pretty intense um and i think as well the the drive home was a bit of a a debrief i suppose of wow what just happened there and i think especially when you're working clinically there's there'll always be days that stand out for a variety of different reasons um and sometimes you you don't appreciate the significance of them at the time until afterwards you know so yeah there was a lot there was a lot of kind of afterwards so I do remember sitting down and someone saying to me jump a cup of tea it's like yeah I wouldn't mind yeah yeah but it but that's that one's kind of always you know always stuck with me I mean I never really kind of spoke to the the anesthetist in a great deal of detail other than that How did you manage that? And it clearly wasn't his first rodeo. But I just remember him being so calm, which I guess is what you want, especially from an anesthetist.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Yeah, absolutely. It strikes to me in those kind of situations, there can be these moments of people typically talk about fight or flight or freeze or even analysis paralysis. It sounded very much that way. moment in time it was kind of a you just got to be able to do rather than overthink it at this point in time and that sort of you could make an argument the sort of extrapolation from this experience Paul into that sort of adaptability that you showed there you know I'm just going through thinking of you take that but then think of where you've gone to work you know you've gone to Cardiff you've gone to Oxford you've gone to Newcastle you know you've gone from clinical into research I mean that to me all strikes a as real adaptable, transferable skills. I might be putting two and two together here, but I don't know if you feel there's maybe a correlation between all that.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Yeah, no, definitely. I think you've kind of like really summarised it well there. I think that's kind of exactly sort of how it is that you do develop a lot of sort of life skills, a lot of, as I said, transferable skills and so on. And I think I'm kind of always sort of cautious about, you know, the word resilient, I think is probably overused quite a lot. now but I guess it does make you adaptable in a lot of ways and also that being bold as well sometimes of yeah do you know what I think I could do that yeah like whenever whenever I've sort of had a big decision to make as for example around jobs you know that might involve something that you haven't done before or working somewhere you've never worked before. My dad's approach is always like, what's the worst that could happen? What is the worst that could happen? It's like, you know, you might not like it, but unless you give it a go, you're never going to know.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. You mentioned about your dad being a lorry driver, which my father-in-law is the same. And he has this very sort of practical approach to things, which I really quite enjoy when I speak to him. to him about it sometimes I get the feeling it's from an experience of well if you go down that route and it's closed typically when he tells me these stories well you've just got to go around and find another one and actually it doesn't need sometimes much more than that sometimes does it but from those experiences of making those decisions Paul like I say career move and things like that it was interesting you talked about after the experience you know having a cup of tea and a drive home and reflect just wondering how if you're comfortable sharing how do you tend to sort of decompress and reflect on these decisions because people have different ways of doing it, don't they? I know some people go for a run, some people will meditate, some people will just go with their gut. I don't know, do you have any experience or how would you go around those kind of things yourself?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Yeah, I mean a lot of those things apply to me. I think the old adage of all work and no play and so on is really true and I've got quite a lot hobbies good social circle I'm a big reflector so I do reflect a lot either when times have gone well when they haven't gone well I think and again you know thinking about working clinically there was a lot of experiences that know they weren't necessarily positive some of those were negative experiences but they're all learning experiences and i think they all kind of shape the type of person you come you become so um you know certainly i i think I think Alex Ferguson talks about, I don't know whether you've seen the interview with Alex Ferguson, he talks about the value of failure, essentially, because I think that is a constant, certainly in academia. Failure, for want of a better word, I suppose, is quite common, papers being rejected, promotion applications being rejected, grant applications being rejected and so on. It's just a common feature of life more generally. And I think you spend a lot of time sort of dusting yourself off and getting back on the horse, you know. But you generally do learn quite a lot of things from those, even if it takes a couple of days before you want to come out from a darkened room, you know. And that's, you know, that's quite normal. But I think a lot of the things that I do So I run. I went for a run last night after work. I kind of find exercise is a really good way of decluttering. I tend to sleep better if I've exercised. I tend to eat better as well when I exercise. So I go to the gym. My wife and I go to the same gym, so we'll often go to the gym together, read, like music, comedy, those types of things. So I think that just taking some time out at times is really important because I think you run the risk of burning out otherwise. So do whatever I can to kind of declutter. I'm a big sports fan, big rugby fan. The Lions already won the series as well. So, yeah, it's been a good summer so far. It's

SPEAKER_00 31:56

been fun, hasn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing. sharing those things but I think it's really nice to hear that I think you know thinking about say typically our you know students can come in I've seen you know sometimes I feel my I've got to be careful how I say it but sometimes put so much into the study that I'm always a little bit concerned they don't enjoy the opportunities outside of the course and the opportunity that university can provide with all the clubs and the and the city and the friends and things like that. And it's interesting, I think you mentioned about the sleep, that when you've, it feels like when you've maybe, you know, realigned, reflected, decluttered, you know, exercised, your sleep is also better as well. I think you find, don't you, through life, you find your little touch points when you know something's not quite right and you're like, I just can't seem to get that peace and relaxment. You know, there's what needs to be basically rebalanced and recalibrated and exercise is such a good way for that, isn't it? But also all these other nice things that you've got as well to sort of keep that nice roundness with work too.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yeah, no, definitely it is. And yeah, no, you're absolutely right. Especially around the exercise component, I've kind of found, you know, you can have a really difficult day. And as well, you know, especially if I'm tired, I'll often think, oh God, do I really want to go for a run now? No, go on, I'll go I always come back feeling I'm so glad I did that I've never come back and thought I wish I didn't do that sometimes it's a slog but yeah I mean it's not meant to be easy is it but I do always kind of feel oh god I'm so glad I did that and I do think yeah just taking some time out even if it's just you know a cup of tea and some Netflix or something whatever it is just taking your mind away from things for a little while. Like as an example, yesterday I was writing a report. I literally had a paragraph to write that would take me probably 10, 15 minutes. I just couldn't concentrate. I'd been up early, been a long day, and I just thought, do you know what? I'm going to leave this and I'll come back to it tomorrow. And yeah, I went back, had a cup of tea, thought, right, I'm going to go for a run. And yeah, I was so glad that I did.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah, great stuff. And I like what you said about that. I often find often it's the time you least think you need, say, you feel tired. The natural inclination will be, well, don't overexert yourself through exercise. But how exercise can be the energizer rather than the sort of the taking away from the energy store. And yeah, it's that learning about yourself, isn't it? About what makes you tick, what makes you work. And I really like what you said about that. about the Alex Ferguson quote and about the failure. I think you're right. You learn a lot through failure sort of made into this sort of it's awful you shouldn't do it but actually you learn so much more about oneself and things don't you with having to go through those things can give you the realignment to go you know what does work as well and I guess that's part of life isn't it it just keeps going yeah

SPEAKER_01 35:23

it is and I guess you know again sounds a bit of a cliche but I think if you looked at most people's careers it's typically the iceberg illusion that you know the success bit the bit that you see is the smallest component the blood sweat and tears and rejections and so on make up probably the biggest part certainly of academic life and I guess I kind of had this notion when I first started that foray into academia that the profs had all the answers and they'd be really successful, but pretty much everyone I speak to has a very similar experience. I do remember my first Research Counselor grant when I was a postdoc. I'd been a postdoc for probably about two years. Submitted my first Research Counselor grant and I'd secured like a postdoc and a couple of other awards at this point. And I And I do remember, I mean, even now looking back, it was one of the ones that I think stung quite a lot. So it was rejected. And I remember speaking to Hamish, who was the prof, who was essentially like the project mentor, as it were. And when it got bounced, I remember saying to him, I can't believe this, like how disappointed I was. And he said to me, Paul, I've been turned down more times than a hospital duvet. It's kind of always stuck with me that because it's like, you know, I can attest that. My last couple of grant applications have been bounced, you know. I've got a paper in review at the moment in the fourth academic journal, you know, because it was bounced by the previous three that I submitted to. So it never really goes away. You just get more used to like, oh, well, Well, you know, I get less bothered now by rejection than I used to. And the other thing as well that kind of really stands out to me in relation to that, about a decade ago, I was chairing a PhD viva. And because I was chairing, I hadn't read the thesis, so met with the examiners. And it was quite clear that this was a spectacular piece of work. And they basically said, This is probably the most perfect thesis I've ever read. And we went through the viva. One of the last questions, which is often asked in a PhD viva, was like, if you had your time over, what would you do differently? The internal, David, who was a professor of health economics, asked that question. And he said... do you know why I wouldn't do anything differently? He said, because there was quite a few things that didn't go right, but I learned more from that than I did from the stuff that did go right. And I think that'll be really beneficial for me in the longer term of just realizing real world research really goes according to plan. And I remember David said, God, I think that's one of the best answers I've ever had to that question. And I think it just kind of serves as a reminder that things often do go go wrong is to be expected and it's usually not the end of

SPEAKER_00 39:14

the world yeah absolutely and as you say it's often growth and development and there's a saying I think it's taken from typically from Japanese culture when they say when for example they've had a plate or a pot that's fallen and broken into pieces they don't just chuck the pieces away they make it a thing to glue them back together but with gold to heal it up and it's always stuck with me that because then they put the plate back on where they display it and you see this beautiful sort of design where those cracks and those scars as such are actually key into making that piece whole but it's actually quite beautiful in its own way and that's something that shines through from that it's about we go through these we have to go through these things to sort of get us to where we go to but that can still be actually even more beautiful than sort of being seen as being perfect

SPEAKER_01 40:17

yeah definitely and again I hope this doesn't sound like a cliche but I think you know like the saying goes you know if you want to see the rainbow you've got to put up with a little bit of rain and I think it does often make success or your achievements a little bit more sweeter because you've you know there's been times where you've just had to really graft for it

SPEAKER_00 40:40

yeah absolutely going into the sort of the last bits of here really paul as sadly for time i've been loving uh chatting with you how are you finding the new role at the moment that's not too much of a question to answer how are you finding it here yeah

SPEAKER_01 40:56

no not at all um i'm i'm really enjoying it i think uh i think the reality is you know regardless of what your job is that you still always feel like you know the new kid in school when you first start um but The staff have been, in particular, been really friendly, really helpful, really supportive. I've joined at, I guess you would call it, an interesting time, given what's going on in the sector. That has been a challenge because maybe some of the things that I would like to do or would want to do, I had to take a little bit of a backseat because I've had to do other things things or there's things that going on of I need to see what this looks like before I could do this so there's some kind of considered decisions to be made along the way but like by and large I'm just settling in okay I really like Nottingham as a city one of my friends Ian who's not from Nottingham but did a history degree in University of Nottingham and then never left So I've been to Nottingham quite a few times over the years for a pint and whatever with Ian. So I know the city not incredibly well, but I do know the city. I've never worked in Nottingham though, so I think I've probably spent quite a lot of time meeting people just to get a sense of the school and the region, the regional landscape stuff. But But so far, I'm settling in okay, finding my way around, starting to feel like I'm slowly getting my feet under the table and starting to think now about, okay, what next kind of thing. And it was really good to go to graduation last week. That was an absolute highlight for me. It always is. Such a great day. And I know, you know, be kind of heading into another academic terms uh not too far away it kind of does feel a bit like groundhog day you know that uh you you're back in you're back in the loop you know and the needle returns to the start of the song as it were

SPEAKER_00 43:28

yeah yeah yeah nicely said nicely said and and paul just to sort of conclude we are we often ask our our guests on the pod is there any bit of um i mean you've given loads of brilliant advice in this episode so thank Thank you for that. But we always ask people if there's anything, is there any bit of advice you'd want to give out or say? Is there like any particular worldly advice and Paul Guild advice for listeners out there? Is there anything you'd want to share with anyone before we conclude the pod?

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Yeah, I guess two things. One is, and again, I don't want this to sound like a series of cliches, but you miss every shot that you don't take. And I think there are times where you...

UNKNOWN 44:12

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

you have to take a leap of faith. Apply for that job that, you know, I don't know if I'll get this. Well, if you don't apply, you'll never know. Or, you know, I've got a paper, I'd like to submit it to this journal, but I don't know whether they'll take it. Well, unless you do, you'll never know. There are times where I think you just have to take risks and sometimes that can kind of be unsettling. So I think you have to You have to do things sometimes, I think, that challenge you. And the other thing as well that comes with that, certainly from my perspective, and I don't know how other people feel, either just starting out in their careers or, you know, even if they're further along in their careers, was that I never had a grand plan, never even had a five-year plan. And I think one of the things that I mentioned before we sat down was, you well to that where do you see yourself in five years time question because I just don't operate on that basis I don't know where I'll be in five years time I never had the plan of being you know dean head of school and so on I think I was always ambitious I always had ambition never kind of ruthlessly so but was always ambitious and wanted to do better and move on and so on but I think some things have been I I've been at a stage where I think I'd like to do something different now, but maybe I'm not quite sure what. And I remember certainly getting to this point was a bit of a process that I hadn't anticipated. And I remember going back to the pandemic, I suppose, was that I think I was your typical job in academic. I was on a teaching and research contract, so I was applying for grants, writing papers, teaching, leading modules, all those types of things. And I thought, I think I'd like to do something different. And I was approached by a job in Northumbria University. He was deputy head of department, essentially with a portfolio of research and knowledge exchange with a view to taking the school forward into REFT And I remember reading the job spec. One was thinking, oh, my God, it's in Newcastle. How's that going to work? And the other was like, because it was a professorial position as well. Am I ready for this? Could I do the job? But I remember looking at it thinking, do you know, I think I could do this. And I remember having an informal conversation with Debbie Porteous, who was head of department at the time, and just saying, coming off the call and thinking I would really like to work with her and I remember my wife saying to me well I said I really I really liked her and it kind of has again in terms of another life lesson just how you treat people with that informal conversation stage. Come and work with us. She was just really warm and friendly. And she just turned out to be the person that I thought she was going to be as well. And the company my wife worked for at the time, MPCT, which is based in Cardiff, had recently been acquired by a company that were based in Durham. So Lisa's boss used to fly up to Durham, to Newcastle, to go to meetings in Durham every week. And she'd said to me, Brian flies up. It takes 45 minutes. And they do a flight every day. And I just remember looking into the logistics and thinking, do you know what? I think I can make this work. It was a bit of a leap of faith. I wouldn't have entertained it pre-pandemic. But I remember Debbie saying to me, yeah, you can work, as long as you're on campus every week. And you do, say, two, three days a week on campus. you can work remotely the rest. And I just thought, yeah, give it a go and it was kind of a bit of a revelation so I was interim head for a while when Debbie retired and this job then I suppose was the next logical step for me you know thinking I think I think I'd like to kind of do something else now and I think I could do this job as well you know so it was that not necessarily I didn't have a plan but I when I saw an opportunity that I liked and I thought I could do, I kind of, you know, I jumped in. So I would say, take a chance, take risks. You don't need to have everything planned out or mapped out. Most people I know don't. It's just been sometimes you turn left, sometimes you turn right. And, you know, this worked out okay for me so

SPEAKER_00 49:37

far. Absolutely. Absolutely. No, that's absolutely brilliant. And I get, you know, I think what you're saying, you know, I think just got to be in and around stuff, haven't you? In and around it and then who knows what can happen. Yeah. What an amazing, it feels like a whistle stop tour of your life, Paul. But thank you so much for sharing that with us. And we're really excited with working with you into the new academic year as well.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Excellent. Thanks. I just do want to say, you know, genuinely, I'm delighted to be here. I think it's a brilliant place to work and to study. And I think my kind of grand plan has always been, you know, where would I like to position the school? Where would I like us to be? in five years time i know i said i don't talk about five years but you know i guess it is kind of thinking about where would i like the school to be in in future and um yeah interesting challenging times in many ways but i think that also presents opportunities as well you know so really looking forward to the challenge and working with people and meeting the students as well

SPEAKER_00 50:45

fantastic thank you very much paul thanks thanks both

SPEAKER_03 50:51

Shall not have gone away